00:00:02:13 – 00:00:08:13
Unknown
Thank you all for joining me and discussing your project. Could you please tell me a bit more about your background?

00:00:08:13 – 00:00:13:05
Unknown
Yeah. So, I’m international student at, Franklin

00:00:13:05 – 00:00:28:01
Unknown
and Marshall College in Pennsylvania. I’m currently senior doing physics and computer science. And, in my previous summer, I was doing a lot of robotics stuff for my summer internship.

00:00:28:01 – 00:00:53:09
Unknown
And, then I came to the college, and I was. So was doing, robotics. Like, I built my own drone, and, I also built the unmanned surface vessel. So I really wanted to go to robotics. And, I was just exploring for different opportunities. And, I found, this opportunity from Space Science and Engineering Center about, building the STELLA device.

00:00:53:11 – 00:01:12:04
Unknown
And, for me, my goal was to just develop more skills into, like, so different in 3D modeling. So during also, programing of microcontrollers as well. So CSS major and this hub was my first.

00:01:12:04 – 00:01:13:15
Unknown
Next. How about Alexa?

00:01:13:15 – 00:01:40:05
Unknown
Yeah. So I am from Wisconsin. I am a mechanical engineering major with a certificate in computer science. UW Madison. I have a lot of experience, building my own things and building projects. I love anything I can get my hands on. So I’ve, like, built a small robot, I mean Legos.

00:01:40:05 – 00:02:01:06
Unknown
Everything that, I could possibly do. And then on top of that, I’ve had a lot of 3D printing. Both in class and out of class. So when I found this internship, I thought it sounded great because there are just so many skills that I could apply. I could do the hands on of the actual building on the spectrometer.

00:02:01:06 – 00:02:11:12
Unknown
I could do coding with my CS. And then on top of that, I could, actually take measurements and analyze them. So yeah,

00:02:11:12 – 00:02:15:15
Unknown
So I typically do research at Space Science and Engineering Center.

00:02:15:15 – 00:02:45:01
Unknown
I got my master’s degree there and then was lucky enough to stay on as a full time researcher. I love doing research, but sometimes looking at a computer screen for so long can get a little tiring. So I decided to take on some outreach tasks. So that’s how I started teaching this STEM class in collaboration with, the greater University of Wisconsin-Madison.

00:02:45:02 – 00:03:22:01
Unknown
So they have a program called Pre-College programs, where they basically prepare K through 12 students for the college experience. My group was working with high schoolers from all around the world. Actually, we had students from as far as Kazakhstan to here, and Madison and I taught a two week STEM class. So that covers everything STEM. And I thought it would be a great opportunity to test out our newly bought, STELLA spectrometers.

00:03:22:02 – 00:03:51:13
Unknown
So SSC had hired two undergraduate engineering students who came and order, ordered all the STELLA parts, put them together, did testing with them, and then in collaboration, in collaboration with me, we kind of came up with this short little curriculum that lasted maybe one and a half to two hours in the classroom with our high school students, where we did a little hands on lab with the instruments.

00:03:51:13 – 00:04:18:07
Unknown
And, yeah, the students got to actually test them out. So that was really fun. I had gone over some basics of remote sensing with them beforehand, so just basics of like, what is the electromagnetic spectrum and how, you know, things can give off different wavelengths and energies depending on what they consist of. So we tested out the cell spectrometers in class with the high schoolers.

00:04:18:07 – 00:04:28:11
Unknown
The class was 13 students and they had a really good time getting some hands on experience with the instruments.

00:04:28:12 – 00:04:30:04
Unknown
last but not least, Doctor Sam.

00:04:30:04 – 00:04:51:09
Unknown
my my background is really, I’ll, I’ll start with when I got involved in remote sensing, which was at Michigan State University in the year 1999, actually. And, I got interested in Landsat then, and I was working with the, tropical rainforest information Center that had a huge Landsat archive.

00:04:51:09 – 00:05:21:09
Unknown
And so I got involved in kind of managing the archive, working with, Dave Skoll and, yeah, that that was when I got excited about remote sensing. Then I moved to Madison to work at the Environmental Remote Sensing Center. And, we did have, a handheld radiometer that we used to do upwelling and down milling of, the, gradients over the, over over water.

00:05:21:09 – 00:05:47:03
Unknown
Actually, we were doing a project where we were looking at Lake clarity and we wanted to have some in situ measurements. And, we had a pretty expensive, fancy, spectrometer with fiber optic leads. And it was pretty, pretty cool. I didn’t actually use it at all, though. I was developing the website for it, so I never actually got to play with it with the instrument.

00:05:47:03 – 00:06:14:13
Unknown
And, but I, I think I, you know, I heard about the STELLA program through, you know, going to conferences and, seeing the booth at various places. So, I knew that the back of my mind, it was something I always wanted to, to do. And I thought, well, I’m never going to find the time to do it myself, but if I could get a couple of students who were interested, then I could supervise that and learn about it myself.

00:06:14:13 – 00:06:21:11
Unknown
So, yeah, I, I think I learned as much as as these two did. So yeah. Thank you.

00:06:23:15 – 00:06:25:08
Unknown
How did you first learn about the,

00:06:25:08 – 00:06:28:02
Unknown
instrument and project?

00:06:28:02 – 00:06:30:02
Unknown
Maybe I should start.

00:06:30:03 – 00:06:41:12
Unknown
Okay. So I think, you know, I saw a STELLA display. Probably an AmericaView conference. There was,

00:06:41:12 – 00:06:43:11
Unknown
most recently in that I,

00:06:43:11 – 00:06:47:01
Unknown
made an impression on me. Was in Denver.

00:06:47:01 – 00:06:57:01
Unknown
And it was, I think an ASPRS conference. And maybe win or not, you my. You were. I’m pretty sure you were there, Michael.

00:06:57:02 – 00:07:20:10
Unknown
Yeah. At least your booth was. This was represented a lot of kids groups coming through it was Denver schools and stuff. Anyway, and I thought, you know, I really, I, I just think it’s such a great idea to be able to build your own spectrometer and learn the principles of remote sensing, but a hands on tool like that.

00:07:20:10 – 00:07:28:09
Unknown
And so, I when I had the opportunity to, create a, an I,

00:07:28:09 – 00:07:50:07
Unknown
a couple positions in our summer, internship program at the Space Science and Engineering Center at UW Madison, we, I signed up to to sponsor one student. But, when I got the resumes and the, letters of interest, these two was tied for the best.

00:07:50:07 – 00:08:14:11
Unknown
So I decided I should just take on two instead of one. And one of the cool things was I saw they had different skill sets, and they, taught each other during this process. So having two people was really great, I think. Inna had some soldering skills and, Alexa had some 3D printing skills and they shared those with each other, and now they both know how to do both.

00:08:14:14 – 00:08:20:02
Unknown
So yeah. Pretty cool. And and then I’ll let them explain how they learned about it.

00:08:20:05 – 00:08:24:04
Unknown
What initially drew you to integrate STELLA instruments into your educational programing?

00:08:24:04 – 00:09:06:09
Unknown
Yeah. So, Sam and I work on a project called AmericaView. So a lot of states have their own WisconsinView. So we’re WisconsinView, we’re part of America view. And our mission is to empower, you know, Earth observation through remote sensing. So we do a lot of satellite remote sensing, but, at SCC, we do some other, ground based remote sensing, but we you know, as, as the outreach person for WisconsinView wanted to come up with ways, you know, not just to talk at students, but to let them actually get their hands on the science, which can be

00:09:06:09 – 00:09:47:09
Unknown
really hard to do with satellite data. Just because you need some programming knowledge. Some. Yeah, just a lot of computational and technical background, to actually play around with that. But with the stellas, you know, they could actually hold the instrument in their hands. You can’t really do that with a satellite. So that was our main motivation was how do we expand Wisconsin View’s outreach efforts to continue giving students more of a hands on experience with remote sensing concepts and remote sensing instruments with the Stella.

00:09:51:06 – 00:09:57:11
Unknown
What were your specific roles during your internship at the Space Science and Engineering Center?

00:09:58:05 – 00:10:30:09
Unknown
Yeah. So, our main role, we worked through a lot of it together. And, we essentially used to get step by step, I know, you know, started her internship actually, before me. So, she, started with actually ordering all the parts. So, she technically did that all for me. Which is great. So I on my first day, we actually already had all the parts we needed, so, that was pretty cool.

00:10:30:10 – 00:11:03:03
Unknown
And then, from there, we, essentially, walked through, like, we started with the Q2 since I was the simplest one. And, our process just, going step by step, building our spectrometers, designing the case for the Q2 working on the 1.1. And then once we had all of that incorporated, then we got to do data, and then we got to programming, so that we could actually, you know, interpret that data.

00:11:03:04 – 00:11:16:09
Unknown
So it really changed from week to week, which was really cool because you got to test out so many new skills. And you weren’t doing the same thing every day.

00:11:16:09 – 00:11:35:09
Unknown
I came two weeks earlier before Alexa, start with her internship, and I just ordered parts. Everything else we did together. And, especially Alexa was very helpful in debugging, apparently. Alexa didn’t mention, but some of her details were not working.

00:11:35:10 – 00:11:57:05
Unknown
And, yeah, Alexa can go over this. Like, why is that work? So yeah, we just had a lot of debugging as well. And, maybe it would be nice regrade the small note for future people in case of the got into some the same troubles. They spent a lot of time there will already like see the solution of this.

00:11:57:09 – 00:12:12:02
Unknown
So excellent. And so to the to those different points. One thing you know, the experience of actually purchasing the parts. Did you have any troubles there? Oh no. It’s pretty much straightforward. Okay.

00:12:13:14 – 00:12:30:04
Unknown
just add that, you know, as the university has pretty specific ways of buying things. And so we had to work with our purchasing department and they showed us how to, to, use that.

00:12:30:04 – 00:12:54:01
Unknown
We had to first demonstrate that we couldn’t buy the some of the parts from existing vendors that served the university, but some of these are very specialized. And so we were able to, justify using the sources that were possible for us to get all the parts. And, but and then there were a couple of defective parts that had to be returned.

00:12:54:01 – 00:13:18:08
Unknown
And, you know, we went through a couple of cycles of that, but, it was, so it was part of the learning process. And I wanted in know the experience that, because that’s real, you know, like when you’re dealing in, in you and within some sort of corporate structure or whatever, you have to go, you have to follow the rules of the, of the game.

00:13:18:08 – 00:13:33:15
Unknown
And sometimes that’s inconvenient, but, we, so that was, that was part of the learning thing that maybe Alexa missed that, but that’s okay. Alexa got involved in returning parts though, so I think, got you a suitable amount of red tape that was game.

00:13:37:12 – 00:13:41:12
Unknown
was this your first dip into, using the STELLAs for teaching?

00:13:41:12 – 00:14:01:01
Unknown
Yes. We had been wanting to use the stylus for a while with WisconsinView. And we, you know, finally had enough money in our budget to hire engineering students to build them. So this was our first little foray into using the STELLA’s at all.

00:14:01:02 – 00:14:06:11
Unknown
So, yeah, this was this was, rookie experience for me. Okay.

00:14:06:11 – 00:14:13:01
Unknown
how would you describe the STELLA project to someone unfamiliar with it, particularly from an educational perspective?

00:14:14:02 – 00:14:24:11
Unknown
Yeah, that one’s hard. I’m gonna have to think about it a little bit. The STELLA experiment.

00:14:24:13 – 00:14:50:07
Unknown
Well, I would definitely use the word remote sensing. And then, depending on their background, you know, you might have to explain what remote sensing is, which, you know, I like to say is always exactly what it sounds like. Something. Something from far away from a remote location. I really like the phrase that you just used using saying a spectral signature is kind of like a light fingerprint.

00:14:50:08 – 00:15:29:08
Unknown
I think that’s a good way of explaining what a signature is. So each object has their own, you know, special signature. Yeah. If they if they knew what the electromagnetic spectrum was, I would say that we’re, we’ve designed a handheld instrument that. Views the energy that an object gives off at different wavelengths and then relate wavelengths back to, you know, the spectrum.

00:15:32:12 – 00:15:36:03
Unknown
Yeah. And then try to connect that with,

00:15:36:04 – 00:16:05:11
Unknown
I guess I’m always trying to connect it back to, like, what I do, which is satellite stuff. So I would maybe show them or bring them an example of like a Landsat image and, you know, move a cursor or my hand over different aspects of that Landsat image and say, you know, each color or each different area has a spectral signature, and we can measure that from space, or we can measure it from the ground.

00:16:05:11 – 00:16:43:04
Unknown
So we can do it like discretely with a STELLA If we were on the ground. But this Landsat image kind of does it all at once from space. I’d say that it’s. Yeah, a really good handheld, simple tool to use in the classroom that students can use with a little bit of instruction and inform them about, different types of surfaces and properties and paying attention to, to detail and light and optics and how all of that relates.

00:16:43:04 – 00:17:08:05
Unknown
So I would hopefully say it a lot more eloquently than I just did. But yeah, I think something along those lines of a handheld instrument that students can use to get a taste of Earth observations using fundamental science and physics concepts, and adding in a little bit of optics science as well.

00:17:08:05 – 00:17:21:10
Unknown
so yeah. And you mentioned, like, engineering students and all that. Can you tell me, like, you know, sort of like the overall structure of how you, so you had some engineering students come in and build it and all that, and you had the students actually go and use it and all that.

00:17:21:11 – 00:17:35:12
Unknown
How was that whole system set up, like, you know, did, like, you know, did you all do the purchasing and the students do the purchasing, all that sort of thing? And, you know, basically from finished. And what kind of system did you use to actually. Yeah. You know, make this a success.

00:17:35:12 – 00:17:41:15
Unknown
Yeah. So, Sam, was there a official like, advisor or supervisor?

00:17:42:01 – 00:18:09:02
Unknown
So he might have a little bit more details about this, but basically we had them come in with, maybe like a 10 or 8 week plan with different tasks to try to accomplish during that plan. We had there was, of course, some waiting time while parts came in. But the students, the students came in, and then Alexa came in and they, learned about what parts they needed to order.

00:18:09:02 – 00:18:43:14
Unknown
So they placed an order for the parts, through our purchasing office. And we have a great admin team that makes our life really, really easy. So our purchasing and financial staff was a big help here. You know, made sure that AmericaView had or WisconsinView had all the funds to cover what they needed, which, of course, Sam and I had had budgeted for, while they were waiting for the parts to come in, that was their time to do like a literature review and just learn more about remote sensing and the sell itself.

00:18:44:00 – 00:19:19:01
Unknown
At that point, I excuse me, I had reached out to other AmericanView members about what kind of curriculum they had done with the STELLA because AmericaView we we try to meet annually and, we have little poster sessions and I had seen a, a poster on still activities from LouisianaView. So I reached out to their staff and kind of asked them what they did in the classroom, to just start getting ideas of how we wanted to design our curriculum.

00:19:19:02 – 00:19:46:07
Unknown
So the STELLAs were built. They they got the parts, they built the instruments, they 3D printed all the cases and everything they needed. And then came time for, like, calibration and test measurements. I think it took for a while we only had three working machines, but Alexa Matson was able to get that all fixed up before our classroom experience.

00:19:46:08 – 00:20:14:10
Unknown
So yeah, I can’t really go into further detail other than that. For the engineering details, you would have to ask Inna, or Alexa. But yeah, I just, I met with them and wanted to know how many instruments we would have, you know, how many would be be functioning. So we knew how to split up the class, and I let them, you know, know, like the bones of of the activity I wanted to do.

00:20:14:10 – 00:20:48:05
Unknown
But I asked them to, like, design a little worksheet with the tables that they would fill out in the graphs that they would plot. They already had a small presentation, as part of their greater SCC wrap up presentation. So they kind of adapted that to a high school audience. We reviewed that and changed a couple of the details just so it would be easier for younger students to understand, relating it back to other applications such as, you know, looking at celestial bodies and whatnot.

00:20:48:06 – 00:21:10:09
Unknown
So that was pretty much the layout of how it went. We did some prep work leading up to the actual classroom experience. They came in beforehand and just wanted to get an idea of like, what the ambient light would look like in the classroom. So they came in a week prior just to get a feel of the space and how it would work.

00:21:10:10 – 00:21:22:08
Unknown
But they did a lot of the work themselves as far as like designing, the worksheet under, under my guidance and, and having a plan of what we were actually going to be doing in the classroom.

00:21:25:01 – 00:21:26:05
Unknown
You know,

00:21:26:05 – 00:21:31:10
Unknown
could you walk us through the development process for the STELLA data analysis website?

00:21:31:14 – 00:22:05:01
Unknown
Yeah. So this website I developed on my own, because the, like, this entire STELLA project was for organizing, for high school kids, like, and actually, they have, like, say, like summer school. So we really needed, like, a tool which can, very quickly analyze data and, show students final result and, at first we decided to use, the star data viewer work.

00:22:05:02 – 00:22:26:05
Unknown
But the problem is that it doesn’t support the STELLA-Q2 version. So after this, we started to play around the curve to have still to make it possible. And at first we thought just to write, like own Python program, but it was not user friendly. So after this, we decided that maybe it’s better just to make a website.

00:22:26:06 – 00:23:06:03
Unknown
And, this how we come out with this website, and it has, like a select, circuit circuit that, yeah. And, we had two versions of the website. One was, a graph, another one just a table. And, in the end, we decided just to use was a table as, we wanted, that kids could make, could plot their graph on their own on pencil and paper, not only like of tomatoes everything, but also gives them opportunity to to live in 21st century without all possible devices.

00:23:09:05 – 00:23:15:08
Unknown
Alexa, what are the what were the main challenges in designing the case modifications for the Q2?

00:23:18:07 – 00:23:47:00
Unknown
Making sure you’re getting the exact correct, dimension you need. There are times like, I think my first case was like, by some miracle, all of it fit except for the microprocessor, which, like the alignment holes, were just like, two millimeters off. So that’s that’s a lot of, the struggle in it is just making sure it’s very exact.

00:23:47:01 – 00:24:10:10
Unknown
And then on top of that, just making sure that it holds up. Well, that it you’re able to click it on and off. You’re able to take it apart and do that multiple times so you don’t have to be worried about it breaking. And then I played around with I had an SD, panel on the back and I was playing.

00:24:10:10 – 00:24:29:01
Unknown
I was having to decide that because I haven’t, I hadn’t designed that before. And I ended up, I was using my mouse, on the back of my mouse, there’s the, removable panel where the battery is. And I remember, like, I kept taking it on and off trying to figure out how it, how they designed it.

00:24:29:01 – 00:24:45:04
Unknown
And so it works. And then I kind of just played around with it on my own, to make that part. So it was a really fun challenge. And there’s a lot of detail in it. But it just made it when it finally came out. Right. That much more satisfying.

00:24:49:01 – 00:24:56:13
Unknown
Inna could you explain the technical differences between the first and simplified versions of the data analysis website?

00:24:56:13 – 00:25:07:13
Unknown
Yeah, it’s a difference. Just, because the first version, you can see a graph, for the second version, there is no graph, there is just a table with data.

00:25:07:15 – 00:25:16:09
Unknown
And, yeah, as explained before, we need this because, we wanted students to work with pencil and paper to draw themselves these graphs,

00:25:16:09 – 00:25:21:00
Unknown
And then, what programing languages and tools did you use in developing the web interface?

00:25:21:00 – 00:25:23:11
Unknown
Yeah, I used just, python

00:25:23:11 – 00:25:56:03
Unknown
The. They have, such nice library as possible. It’s very, very nice library because, you can combine, HTML website, the comic books also with, to assess how exactly you want to your, like, all your buttons work and, you can also program on your own, some functions. For example, in our case, we can, extract some data from the, spreadsheet, but we need then go to what would be like the final irradiance.

00:25:56:04 – 00:26:05:05
Unknown
So the final reflectance is or so I just used HTML like Python and CSS.

00:26:09:04 – 00:26:53:06
Unknown
Well, I was, approached by our, center leadership to help run the program this summer with, with a colleague Dave Hayes and, and so, one of the things that we did was, we had all of the interns that were about, between 10 and 12 throughout the summer. Meet once a week at a, roundtable discussion and go around the table and, and, the students would update on the various projects they’re working on.

00:26:53:07 – 00:27:16:04
Unknown
And I was fortunate because I had a project and I was in that room every week. So I would get the update from both, and, and, and Alexa as well as hear about all the other projects, but and then we would touch base after the, after the meeting to, to talk about any issues or, you know, requirements.

00:27:16:05 – 00:27:45:06
Unknown
I, I leaned heavily on my, colleagues to help. We were our fifth floor of our building is kind of kind of where hardware is, is, created where they developed, the scanning his spectrometer for and sounder for, satellites, you know, so there’s it’s there’s actually a whole clean room and a lot of a lot of high end, technology and people who know how to do all of that stuff.

00:27:45:06 – 00:28:23:15
Unknown
And so, we were lucky that, Rob Lemke, one of my colleagues, was willing and able to help get the, workspaces set up with anti-static mats and, soldering setups for, for both. And I think probably provided some instruction on that to also provided the multimeter that, Alexa talked about needing for and then, so, yeah, I had had buy in from people on, colleagues who work in the area of instrument, instrumentation, which I don’t, you know, I’m more of a, visualization person.

00:28:23:15 – 00:28:54:09
Unknown
So, I needed that help from my colleagues, but. So I think the two things were having regular meetings and then making sure connecting, Alexa and I with the, with the people who could answer their questions or help. And fortunately, both of these these students are. So, they’re self-starters and didn’t require a lot of, micromanaging at all.

00:28:54:09 – 00:29:11:11
Unknown
And I prefer that style. I prefer saying, okay, you can figure it out, and tell me when you do, you know, and, and, and if you can’t, then, tell me and we’ll find someone who can help, you know? So that was just kind of, how we how we did it.

00:29:15:08 – 00:29:23:01
Unknown
the. Not the development. What inspired you to, use the spectroscopic mystery activity? And how did it go?

00:29:23:01 – 00:30:00:01
Unknown
we were looking at the activities that were on the website, and that one sounded really fun and that I got across the different, how to read graphs and, you know, how light works and how you can read reflectance to see the color of things. And on top of that, mysteries are fun. I feel like, kids can connect with that and, get that hands on, experience with what we built.

00:30:00:02 – 00:30:09:03
Unknown
Yeah. So can you describe, like, what your setup was for the for the mystery? What? You, you know, you all did what you all found, useful, so on, so forth,

00:30:09:03 – 00:30:23:01
Unknown
Yeah. So spectroscopic mystery, is pretty much where you have the kids, take their own spectral measurements, using the spectrometers of a variety of different materials.

00:30:23:02 – 00:30:54:15
Unknown
And then, you can put up, different spectral graphs, and they get to identify, which one they think it is based on their own measurements. And yeah. So when we did it, I believe we had a couple different things. We had, healthy leaves. We tried to get brown leaves or decaying leaves. And we had, like, folders, notebooks,

00:30:55:00 – 00:31:04:02
Unknown
What else am I forgetting? Something? 3D printed cases, which. Yeah. Which, you know, which failed.

00:31:04:03 – 00:31:31:05
Unknown
Yeah. Yeah. Our first drafts of our 3D printed cases, we were used as, measurements because they’re black and white. So we tried to get, things of variety of colors to, and it was a lot of fun. We had four working spectrometers that we had the kids and split up into four groups. And each group got their own spectrometer.

00:31:31:07 – 00:31:34:08
Unknown
And it worked really well. Yeah.

00:31:34:08 – 00:31:48:09
Unknown
Yeah. So the lab was basically set up so that we had different, materials, different surfaces, and the kids were given a little demo of how to use the spectrometers.

00:31:48:09 – 00:32:12:05
Unknown
I think it was a little hard for them to pick up on. At first. We had four instruments and we split up in like four groups of 2 or 3. I think was was how we set it up. So we took in one group at a time, and we just had them stand around the table. And then we did a demo of this is how you use the instrument.

00:32:12:06 – 00:32:32:05
Unknown
Usually we did sandwich observations. So we do a calibration reading and then a reading of the object and then the calibration reading. So that was a little hard to, to drill in. You know, there used to just like pointing and clicking and having it be that easy, but it’s, a little bit more complicated than that.

00:32:32:06 – 00:32:57:13
Unknown
So we yeah, we went around and did that one group at a time and then gave them the rest of the materials. We had a list of materials that they had to measure. So one was like a healthy leaf, a dying leaf. And then things that we just found around the office. So like red binder, orange binder, black binder, black case, white case, just random things that we could get our hands on.

00:32:57:15 – 00:33:25:00
Unknown
And they took, they took measurements of each of those, and then, yeah, it was a little hard teaching them all how to use the instrument. I couldn’t teach them all how to use the instrument as a class. So we broke up into those subgroups, and I just taught, like 2 or 3 students at a time so they could actually see us clicking the buttons.

00:33:25:00 – 00:33:49:10
Unknown
And holding the instruments. And they were a little confused with, how they were actually going to get the data because we had to use data readers to get the information off the machine after all the measurements had been taken. So what they did was they did like calibration, measurement, calibration, and then they wrote down batch numbers to reference.

00:33:49:10 – 00:34:15:09
Unknown
And they were like, why are we writing down these batch numbers instead of writing down data? So maybe we could have done a better job explaining that. But afterwards we gave them, SD readers that they could plug in to their laptops. Each student had a laptop. We took the SD readers out of the Stella’s, and then one of the engineering students wrote a really easy,

00:34:15:10 – 00:34:46:03
Unknown
She put it up a website so that they could extract the data pretty easily. So after they got the data, they had these tables that was just like wavelength versus, reflectance. And so they wrote down each wavelength and they wrote down each reflectance. And then with that data, they had to draw like an X-Y graph of the pattern of reflectance versus or wavelength versus reflectance.

00:34:46:04 – 00:35:19:00
Unknown
So it was a lot of steps to get to the end product. And we ended up not having enough time because they were learning a lot all at once. But it was a really good experience. I think they still took away some knowledge from it. We had some issues with the data not reading and correctly like we were getting, I don’t know, numbers in the thousands for reflectance, which you know, doesn’t make sense because we’re looking we’re supposed to be between 0 and 1.

00:35:19:01 – 00:35:49:11
Unknown
So we had some issues reading in the data where they just had to do the step over again to get their, their valid data and yeah, we had a couple students resulting in trends that actually made sense. So what we were planning on doing was, showing the shapes of wavelength versus reflection up on the board and saying, you know, guess which object this is based on the shape.

00:35:49:13 – 00:36:15:01
Unknown
And then kind of explaining, like, oh, this is more reflective in the green channel because etc., etc., or this is more reflective in red because, it’s close to the infrared, which has to do with heat. So, you know, that’s why the number goes up there. Yeah. We were a little bit rushed at the end. We did run out of time, and since we ran the time, a lot of the kids didn’t get to draw their X-Y plots all the way.

00:36:15:02 – 00:36:35:13
Unknown
So I think we only had one group, with one object came out with it, like correctly. Oh, yeah. So yeah, I would, I would probably better control for, for time next time and just come up with a better way to communicate what they were supposed to do with the time given. But it was still really fun.

00:36:35:13 – 00:36:43:08
Unknown
I think the students had a good time and and walked away with it from it with something. So I consider that mission accomplished.

00:36:46:14 – 00:36:47:12
Unknown
areas where

00:36:47:12 – 00:36:55:07
Unknown
you had issues, can you, can you describe what issues you all ran into in this goes for both or all three of you.

00:36:55:07 – 00:36:55:14
Unknown
Really?

00:36:55:14 – 00:37:14:01
Unknown
so. Well, with my Q2 at least? The problem with the LED button, which ended up being a very simple fix, it was just we had to return it and get a new one. But beforehand it was troubleshooting to make sure that that was the actual problem.

00:37:14:01 – 00:37:38:14
Unknown
So, we used a multimeter to see if voltage was actually getting through and it wasn’t. And then, I actually it was nice having a second person because then I actually, was able to take the button off the second Q2 and then put it on mine to make sure that, it was actually the button. Then it worked so we could be like, okay, this is definitely the issue.

00:37:38:15 – 00:38:11:03
Unknown
And then we went through the return process and luckily the new one worked. And then a bit of, I guess, I also had a sensor, I believe it was the, this spectral sensor on the 1.1 that, didn’t connect. It wouldn’t, connect to. I took a bus, for whatever reason. And it was getting voltage.

00:38:11:04 – 00:38:39:04
Unknown
A light was blinking on it, but, again, it was nice to compare to, you know, because I could see that mine just continued blinking while, hers would turn on and off, and hers was working. So I couldn’t find anything wrong with it. It just wasn’t showing up. When I did the test codes. And, so that’s kind of where the part where I had to do research and see if other people had this problem and other people did have this problem.

00:38:39:04 – 00:39:04:11
Unknown
And apparently it was a somewhat common issue with this specific sensor. So then I, had to go through the return process. Again, I got a second one, but it was from the same batch. So the second one was also faulty. And then it took a few weeks to get the third one, which finally did work.

00:39:04:12 – 00:39:34:04
Unknown
So it was a much longer process. Technically, the spectrometer worked in that time. It just, couldn’t actually, read Visible light, which was, a little unfortunate, but, when I finally did get it, it was very satisfying. And then, yeah, that was, also a sensor that was soldered on, too. Right. So this wasn’t just a matter of plugging it and unplugging it each time.

00:39:34:04 – 00:39:54:06
Unknown
Yeah. So this was the one of the more complicated issues. Yeah. Well, I learned my lesson the first time, because I had sorted it on and tested it and realized it didn’t work. So then for the next two sensors, because the soldering, the whole process I used, I have my own, like, Arduino, control board.

00:39:54:07 – 00:40:07:07
Unknown
And then I just used my own breadboard and tested it on there before soldering it, which made my life a whole lot easier. So that was a good lesson to learn.

00:40:07:07 – 00:40:13:00
Unknown
Excellent. Anyone else? Any any troubles that, weren’t mentioned?

00:40:14:00 – 00:40:40:12
Unknown
Since Scott. No, I just had at first some troubles with screen, but it was just. I just had drawn wiring it first, but then it worked. So there was also, one the first 3D printing of the case for the Q2 the battery didn’t fit, so we had to redesign the case for the Q2 to fit the battery that was on the that we had ordered.

00:40:44:09 – 00:41:00:12
Unknown
what was the most challenging technical obstacle you encountered and how do you overcome it. And this can go not only just to the web interface, but to the STELLA itself. And what was it, the, the chips? Was it, you know, the the redesign of the case?

00:41:00:13 – 00:41:03:01
Unknown
What do you think was the most challenging

00:41:03:06 – 00:41:42:04
Unknown
I remember, building the, 1.1, is that was really cool, but also very stressful because, you know, you’re soldering wires and, resistors and capacitors and, you’re so worried that you’re going to put it in the wrong place and then, like you, soldering is a pain. So I think that, was really cool, but definitely, just going through it and going through every step and like, triple checking yourself, it was really hard.

00:41:42:04 – 00:42:15:10
Unknown
I remember, the wiring, the actual display screen, I think was the most difficult part because, you know, you have to go through the holes and, and do all that. I think at one point I, switched, two wires around and my display wasn’t working. And then I realized I did that. And, it was it was easier to actually, because they’re colored to what the directions had said to make, you know, it easier to identify.

00:42:15:10 – 00:42:42:13
Unknown
And I think I switched the colors, because it was just easier to change, swap the ends than to actually, make them the right colors that it was. So, that part was very technically difficult. But it also practiced a lot of, skills and soldering and, accuracy. Yeah. Excellent. What about you for you in

00:42:42:13 – 00:42:43:11
Unknown
was the most.

00:42:43:11 – 00:42:53:03
Unknown
Yeah. Absolutely same. Absolutely the same. It was just about the checking everything. Because several times making sure that that’s how it’s supposed to be.

00:42:57:00 – 00:43:01:08
Unknown
What would you change or improve about STELLA based on your experience?

00:43:03:04 – 00:43:24:13
Unknown
Or for me, like for STELLA-1.1 I would like to have this in light which you had for STELLA-Q2. It just. It’s so convenient when you can just, hold, the device just in front of the object, which you want to detect. And, the second thing I really liked is a touch screen, which you have on STELLA-1.1.

00:43:25:10 – 00:43:41:10
Unknown
It would be. It would be amazing if you could put this on STELLA-Q2 and you can, read, at the same time, when you’re taking the data, you can read what’s, what’s the data points to make sure that your like really taking data.

00:43:42:10 – 00:44:12:01
Unknown
Excellent. I think you mentioned this before, with the 1.2, but I think having the troubleshooting as you go is a huge help. This because when you’re working with so many sensors and one doesn’t work, I think that would be a huge benefit. But otherwise I completely agree with, Inna, the light on the Q2 was great, especially for taking, like, measurements on leaves.

00:44:12:02 – 00:44:15:12
Unknown
So. Yeah, I think that would be it.

00:44:19:09 – 00:44:32:14
Unknown
How did the hands on nature of solo work affect their ability to ask good scientific questions? Yeah, I know you said there’s only two days, so they might not have a really ask that many, but it’s worth a shot under.

00:44:32:14 – 00:44:42:07
Unknown
I think that it really challenge them to improve their technical language.

00:44:42:09 – 00:45:04:11
Unknown
STELLA was really the only like lab experience that we got to do in class because a lot of it, like we do a lot of touring of the campus and visiting museums and hearing from guest lectures, we did do a lot of programing the first week. So I guess you could kind of consider that, like computer lab time.

00:45:04:12 – 00:45:39:14
Unknown
But as far as, like a traditional lab experience that I think of, Stella was the only one that we did. So I think it challenged them to when asking clarifying questions of, how do I get this to work? How do I upload my data? Like, what exactly is the purpose of writing down these batch numbers? I think it allowed them to improve their their technical communication just by elaborating more on like what exactly are we doing here?

00:45:39:15 – 00:46:16:05
Unknown
Because yeah, like I said, we probably could have communicated like the goal and the steps a little bit more, more clearly to them. Yeah. So just following up and figuring out like, what is the purpose of what we’re even doing? I think it made them a little bit more, more comfortable asking those questions and, yeah, phrasing, phrasing things in a technical way that their instructors and helpers could, could understand and better answer their questions.

00:46:20:03 – 00:46:25:01
Unknown
how did this experience differ from typical classroom or laboratory learning?

00:46:28:15 – 00:46:52:15
Unknown
But I can tell that, for me is the difference was, first of all, you don’t have, like, any, like, deadlines. And of course you have like some weeks at a time when you need to do, but you don’t have to rush about the deadline. So you’re just doing this stuff and, you can really just enjoy the, the process when you’re doing.

00:46:53:01 – 00:47:20:10
Unknown
And the second thing which was from different is that, it’s more like a team work. It’s not just assignment, which just you have, you can work with a team. You can ask, different the type of people about how to debug something as, Sam told We had, and, his colleague Robert Lemke, you helped us very well, so much in electrical engineering.

00:47:20:11 – 00:47:31:04
Unknown
So you can just expand your network with other people and, just enjoy and, learn new skills.

00:47:31:04 – 00:47:34:00
Unknown
Excellent.

00:47:34:01 – 00:48:03:01
Unknown
Yeah. I completely agree with, you know, it’s it’s very, different in the way that it’s very flexible. You can, you can you’re making a lot of, choices and designs yourself, and that’s really cool. You it’s you’re given essentially a goal, but how you get there, you can vary. And that’s a really cool process.

00:48:03:01 – 00:48:18:14
Unknown
And even, coding and, just deciding how you want your graphs to look and figuring out how you want to take the data from the spectrometer and how you want to turn out. It’s just.

00:48:18:15 – 00:48:42:11
Unknown
It is really, really, I was really cool to just, have so much control over that and then also just be able to problem solve yourself and work with a partner and kind of see it applied to the real world.

00:48:46:08 – 00:48:50:05
Unknown
What new skills did you develop through your work with STELLA that you hadn’t anticipated?

00:48:52:03 – 00:49:37:00
Unknown
I think for me, I got to, get a lot of practice with soldering, with, you know, help, which was great. I also, got to, like, I got to learn a lot of trouble troubleshooting with the electronics. With the problems I ran into, which was a very helpful skill. And then on top of that, just the, trying to come up with how to present, spectrometers to, group of students, in a way that they can understand and how to use, and how to read them.

00:49:37:02 – 00:49:39:06
Unknown
That was a fun challenge.

00:49:41:09 – 00:50:13:00
Unknown
Yeah. For me, I, you know, like before, I was usually using, like, fusion 364 street modeling. And for this project, it was my first time when I used SolidWorks was to the model. Also, it was very interesting to explain, about the spectrometer also to my family, not only to kids, because before I was preparing to explain this to my parents and my sisters, and it was very, very interesting conversation.

00:50:13:02 – 00:50:29:00
Unknown
Yeah. Because they’re doing biology. That’s right. But my mom is teaching biology and chemistry, and, she asked me a lot of questions, like how exactly agree with, impacto to my work. Like, how can I explain this to my students? It was it was interesting.

00:50:32:13 – 00:50:42:14
Unknown
based upon your experience, you know, you said you’d like a little bit more time. What kind of teaching strategies, do you think worked well? And which kind of do you think, didn’t work quite so well, you know,

00:50:43:05 – 00:51:19:13
Unknown
I think that hands on learning, supplemented with visual material, always works really well in the classroom because at that age, I don’t really like talking at them for more than maybe ten minutes. Like, I think if we have guest lectures, they’ll sometimes go 30 minutes. But, you know, if we talk and then do something and then talk and then do something, that is the best way for for them to learn, because I think they can really, tune out easily otherwise.

00:51:19:14 – 00:51:40:02
Unknown
So yeah, I think I would definitely break up, lecture material and any like audio and visual learning with an activity or a hands on example. In order for the material to really sink in, better.

00:51:41:09 – 00:51:47:06
Unknown
What advice would you give to other educators wanting to implement similar programs?

00:51:48:12 – 00:52:15:11
Unknown
I would say that it’s probably a good idea to do like, a dress rehearsal, so to speak. Just do a dry run of, exactly how you’re going to teach the students. And one one thing that was kind of a hiccup in our class was that when we were teaching each subgroup how to use the instruments, the other groups were just kind of like sitting and waiting around.

00:52:15:11 – 00:52:46:11
Unknown
It didn’t have like a lot to do. So I would maybe come up with some sort of activity, like where we’re while we’re teaching one subgroup, how to use the instruments and take a reading, the other subgroups can have a collection of materials and kind of take those field notes that we were talking about. So just writing down, observations that they’re making about the materials that they are planning on measuring with the STELLA’s, yeah.

00:52:46:11 – 00:53:00:05
Unknown
So writing about color, texture, surfaces, things like that. I think that would be kind of a good filler activity. So they’re not just like waiting around, waiting to, to take their turn.

00:53:00:05 – 00:53:06:00
Unknown
What aspects of this work do you find most rewarding from an educator’s perspective?

00:53:07:09 – 00:53:34:12
Unknown
Yeah, I think the most rewarding part is when, the students get a result that makes sense to them and looks correct. So we had, one group, you know, draw the actual spectrum line, and the shape, the shape match, match, what it was supposed to look like. And, you know, they this is the first time they’ve ever done this.

00:53:34:12 – 00:53:55:04
Unknown
So they drew their line and made their points and they showed it to, me and Alexa, and they were like, is this right? And we were so excited because they had gotten it right. You were like, yeah, you did it. You did it. And they were kind of confused as to like the fact that they got it right.

00:53:55:05 – 00:54:26:01
Unknown
And so we had to like kind of anthem up and, and be like, yeah, you actually did it correctly, like you did what you were supposed to do. So I think that’s the most rewarding is kind of cheering them on and like, yeah, telling them that they did the activity correctly and then, you know, of course relating in the end back to like why that mattered and why, like what they should have taken away from it.

00:54:26:01 – 00:55:06:09
Unknown
I think when they. Yeah, when they get the right answer on their own, it can be really, really satisfying. When they’re excited about it. I think in this case, they were like confused as to why why they should be excited about it. And we had to, like, tell them why it was exciting. But yeah, I think if we had done a better, a better job of, just the the logistics of the classroom, then we could have had more of that, like satisfying experience of the students, like being really excited that they’ve gotten to the the correct answer or they had gotten something to work.

00:55:10:06 – 00:55:14:09
Unknown
How do you see STELLA evolving as an educational tool in the coming years?

00:55:14:11 – 00:55:17:07
Unknown
I’ll go with Doctor Sam first for this one.

00:55:19:08 – 00:55:48:01
Unknown
Well, I you know, this was such a good experience. I could see, doing this each year with, with, and just building on the results of this group, you know, building I might take on another intern or two next summer and have them do, whatever the next model is of Stella and then build on what, what, Inna and Alexa have done, but also, I think,

00:55:48:02 – 00:56:28:01
Unknown
Yeah, I’d love to see. So I work mostly with atmospheric scientists, meteorologists. And so, land remote sensing is more my background. And I’d like to make sure my colleagues know more about that, because we’re starting to use weather satellites to look at things like fire and smoke and things that are related to land processes. So, I kind of see it professionally, actually helping educate my own colleagues to so I think it could be kind of a I could imagine growing this program within my own, my own work.

00:56:33:06 – 00:56:47:10
Unknown
Okay. How much your contributions to help expand STELLA’s reach. Help expand STELLA’s reach to, more student populations, more in different student populations.

00:56:49:00 – 00:57:24:06
Unknown
You get the question? I think so, I think so this would probably be a good one for Alexa Ross, but, it, I can just say that one of our. We’ve through a new program, we’ve learned that one of the best ways to get to grow, curriculum or, our outreach is, by teaching teachers. And so when, if we can have summer summer workshops or we could work with teachers, then they can take it into their classrooms.

00:57:24:07 – 00:57:48:12
Unknown
And that’s kind of a way to, you know, an avenue for expanding. But I think Alexa Ross has pretty good connections within the Madison community here. And that was in Wisconsin. And, I believe that that, she got plans for her, expanding curriculum and using these tools.

00:57:52:09 – 00:57:55:14
Unknown
so you worked with, Inna and Alexa,

00:57:55:14 – 00:58:16:15
Unknown
what changes did you observe in, intellectual engagement and enthusiasm for STEM learning throughout their STELLA experience? Yeah. I didn’t really work. I worked with them closely towards the end, when we were ready to implement everything they had done into classroom curriculum.

00:58:17:00 – 00:58:39:06
Unknown
But for the most part, they were just really good, self-starting. And, you know, we gave them, like, a schedule of, you know, like week one you should do this week to do this. And they were they didn’t really need much oversight at all. They knew the mission. They were really efficient at, finding what they needed to find.

00:58:39:07 – 00:59:29:03
Unknown
I think it was helpful because Alexa mattson was a UW and or is a UW engineering student, so she already had knowledge of things like where to find the 3D printer and how to get into that makerspace and design and print what they needed. So that was really helpful. I think that I was really impressed at the end with their ability to communicate to the students, you know, not only the background of what like spectroscopy, spectroscopy is, but when they were teaching the students how to use the instruments, just their communication skills, because, yeah, I didn’t interact with them a ton leading up to this.

00:59:29:04 – 00:59:51:11
Unknown
And in a especially seemed a little quiet. So I wasn’t sure how she was going to do like presenting to students, because now you have to speak loudly. There are these loud ventilators in the back of the classroom, so sometimes it’s hard to hear. But they did a really great job. So I was impressed in the end by their science communication skills.

00:59:51:11 – 01:00:25:11
Unknown
And I know that they also had to do like an internal SCC presentation that all of our, student undergraduate interns have to do. So I think maybe, maybe if they had been like preparing or practicing for that, it helped. But they did a great job in the end in the classroom. And, yeah. So I was impressed by their science communication skills, both presenting in front of the class, but also just working one on one with the students who needed a little bit of help on how to, take the measurements correctly and then how to extract the data from the SD cards.

01:00:25:11 – 01:00:37:03
Unknown
They were really willing to sit down and troubleshoot with the student and work with them one on one to, accomplish their tasks and goals. While

01:00:37:03 – 01:00:41:08
Unknown
was the most important thing. You want people to know about your STELLA project?

01:00:45:04 – 01:01:10:07
Unknown
It was such a fun and educational, project. I had so much fun this summer doing it that it didn’t even feel like a job. It, genuinely all the different skills, I got to learn from week to week and, just the way I was so different from week to week, was really great.

01:01:10:07 – 01:01:34:14
Unknown
And this is the variety of things you get to do. It’s. I, I didn’t realize it, till we did, like, our final presentation at the end. Or even, like, putting that presentation together is just how much stuff we were able to do. And that was so cool because it was only ten weeks. And it didn’t feel like ten weeks.

01:01:34:14 – 01:01:36:12
Unknown
So. Yeah.

01:01:36:12 – 01:02:07:04
Unknown
Okay. So yeah, for me, still is. It’s also like about, like be confident about that either, like engineering and, I want to continue doing engineering and, it’s also like about, that you are working with as many fields as I’ve mentioned. That’s right. You you can combine your programing skills like your, like soldering, like everything.

01:02:07:05 – 01:02:24:12
Unknown
And, just enjoy the process and and don’t be, like, pressured. That it’s something super difficult. It’s not like everything, is in Google or ChatGPT So you can just ask them and they will answer you.

01:02:25:01 – 01:02:54:12
Unknown
Excellent. I think the memorable thing for me is the, is, is, is watching these two students teach each other things and learn from each other, and, and, I think, yeah, the stuff STELLA is in this kind of a it’s almost like a catalyst for learning. It makes a lot of learning happen, and it’s all you know, centered around this device.

01:02:54:12 – 01:03:18:09
Unknown
But like Alexa pointed out, it crosses all these boundaries into other disciplines and other, topics. And, so it’s, yeah, I think of it almost like the spokes of a wheel, you know, it’s like this. So STELLA can be the hub in the middle. And there’s all of these topics and possible questions and things to explore that, that radiate out from that.

01:03:18:09 – 01:03:23:14
Unknown
And so yeah, it was just really a pleasure to work, work on this project.

01:03:23:14 – 01:03:42:04
Unknown
How has, working with STELLA changed your perspective on, NASA technology or space science or just, you know, remote sensing and all that? So how does it change your perspective basically on, on the various technologies that are out there?

01:03:42:04 – 01:04:03:12
Unknown
I can do that for me. I always thought that NASA it’s something so far from me that I maybe can get access to this on only after getting PhD, but, this summer I you find out that you don’t have to finish your PhD to work with some NASA materials. You can be even a high school kid.

01:04:03:13 – 01:04:19:06
Unknown
It’s. Yeah, it’s open source. And, you can do it even from your home. And, it doesn’t require some, like, super expensive equipment. You can just buy it on, on Digikey or Amazon and build on your own.

01:04:19:06 – 01:04:42:15
Unknown
I think for me, I, the part of the NASA was focused on is the, like other planets, space access, aspect of it. And getting to work spectrometers and also learning about how it can be used to track wildfires, vegetation health and all these different, applications.

01:04:43:00 – 01:05:03:02
Unknown
Just on Earth was really cool. And then having also, the ability to build an instrument, that’s not super expensive. That’s super simple to use. To actually see that on a smaller scale was was really cool.

01:05:06:15 – 01:05:11:05
Unknown
surprised you most about working with solar technology? And again, this goes to anyone.

01:05:11:05 – 01:05:34:15
Unknown
for me, it was really surprising. The, in the end, when we were comparing our data with, Landsat data, we had the the satellite. What? The name phone was the one set, right? Yeah. So when we were comparing results with when I said I was surprised when our results got really like they were very, very close.

01:05:35:00 – 01:05:57:01
Unknown
And that’s why I was, I was really surprised that, with this very cheap machine, like, can take same result as something that is in the, in space, which is like very, very far away. And, I had a feeling like I touched something like, like something super Samsung unusual.

01:05:57:01 – 01:06:21:12
Unknown
I, I think that thing that was, I was, I was surprised how I wasn’t sure what to expect, honestly, with, like, where are we going to be able to get all the parts we needed? You know, I mean, at the beginning of this, I really wasn’t sure if we were, you know, the goal is to make for spectrometers, but I had no idea if it was really going to happen or not.

01:06:21:12 – 01:06:44:14
Unknown
You know, we had ten weeks and we had all these other goals like, okay. And so I think, you know, we got the parts took about a week. We got the and then they built them so quickly that we had plenty of time to work on other things, which was so great. And, and basically every time we met, it was kind of like, okay, what are we going to do next?

01:06:44:14 – 01:07:05:01
Unknown
You know, like and and so I guess for me, it just what was surprising about the whole program is how it kind of, there was kind of a feedback loop and, almost a snowballing effect where it got better and better as we went along because we got, we got to do more and learn more and discover as we went.

01:07:05:01 – 01:07:15:07
Unknown
So I think that was I thought it was just going to be making spectrometers. Honestly, I didn’t think we were going to do everything else that we ended up doing.

01:07:16:08 – 01:07:49:03
Unknown
Excellent. And Alexa, I think what surprised surprised me the most, was just, how much? You could do with the spectrometers and what kind of different experiments you can use them for, because there’s so much more even than what we did. I know one of the things I ended up doing was I collected a variety of leaves, and then I, left them on my desk for, like, a week.

01:07:49:04 – 01:08:16:03
Unknown
And then I compared the spectral measurements of when I first got them, and then a week later, which is really cool, because then you get to see the drop in the infrared and then, the, absorption, absorption. And like, the blue and red, parts of the spectrum on the graph. And it was cool to physically see that just on something I left on my desk for a week.

01:08:16:04 – 01:08:37:07
Unknown
But even that, like when I went through the GitHub, some of the suggestions of different experiments, there’s so much that you can do and there’s so, so much you can learn. Just like with any spectrometer. Excellent. No. Good question. Did you, did you use a, any kind of white reference? Normalize your,

01:08:37:08 – 01:08:58:02
Unknown
Okay. What did you what did you all use? What was your. We had a we essentially took a piece of construction paper. And put it we taped it to a box, so that, when we were outside that it could just, sit on the grass. And then we, took calibration measurements from it.